AGP 8x vs PCI Express

OrGaN_ShIfTeR

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« on: October 15, 2004, 12:21:34 PM »

ATI already admits that the new x600 PCI Express Card can send and receive data simultaneously at twice the speed of the current AGP 8x that we use now. These are just the first cards to launch. Wait until the x32 PCI Express cards drop in stores. AGP will suffer a limited life as the article "A Look At PCI Express" states. Why go out and get an expensive AGP card when pretty soon it will be even slower compared to PCI Express. Then you'll be faced with the issue of whether or not you should sell your current AGP Card for a far faster PCI Express card. PCI Express is going to take over and replace AGP soon enough being that it will be much faster and cheaper to implement onto MB's. PCI Express is replacing USB2, Gigabit Ethernet, Firewire, and a host of other pc interfaces because it's the new technology that's been a long time coming. We should embrace it. Pretty soon, this forum will be full of post about how much better PCI Express is and how we can OC this new technology to make it even faster - when it will already be blazing.;)

I don't have any problems running any game on max that I've played (including Far Cry & Doom 3). I ran the DoubleCross demo from ATI and didn't get shadows like others reported. The close-up on the female character's lips were not as beautiful as they could have been, but stunning all the same, and the entire thing played with minimum slow down.

Read this article and look at the stats of PCI Express if you are still skeptical. You'll change your mind soon enough.

A Look At PCI Express

Read this...PCI Express: words from ATI

With RADEON X600 graphics you have the ability to send and receive data simultaneously at twice the speed of current AGP 8X solutions.

The future of PCI Express is the best thing going on right now...and not just for graphics.


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Stank_Ho

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2004, 12:43:25 PM »

I also can run full out on Doom3 with no problems with my AGP. I find it hard to imagine "twice as fast". Would I really notice...? I've played the ending in Doom3 over about 50 times for friends to see(pussies for not finishing it really) and I'm still in awe.


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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2004, 03:28:46 PM »

I need a new video card, and now reading all this shizzle I dont want to go waste money, but I guess once all that good stuff does come out I will need a new MD. So I guess I will go buy a new video card still! This GeForce 4 MX just doesn't cut it anymore.


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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2004, 11:33:09 AM »

I voted for AGP, i bet PCI Express is dern good and probl will get even better as time goes....

But why do AMD with AGP 8x win all 3d benchmarks then............

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luwigie

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2004, 12:26:41 PM »

I don't doubt that PCI-E is better than AGP from a raw bandwidth stand point. The thing is that most video cards rarely even use up the entire AGP 8x bus. There are other bottle necks in the way.

Also, you say that PIC-E will replace Gigabit ethernet, firewire, usb2, etc. I don't agree. Those interfaces will still exist. They will just be in the form of PCI-E addon cards (or built into the mobo) rather than PCI cards. It just doen't make sense to use PCI-E (not hot-swappable) over USB2 (hot-swappable). I can see possibly some new specs coming out with more bandwidth now that they can use it (thanks to PCI-E).

If I misunderstood what you said about PCI-E replacing all of those things, please ignore me as usual.

I think that those that are in the market for new video cards at this time should probably research the card on its own merits rather than whether or not it has PCI-E. That is, unless of course, you want to upgrade your mobo at the same time. Then I would go with PCI-E for compatability's sake. Even if you get a video card that runs on PCI-E16, I'm sure it will run on PCI-E32 although it might not be as fast as the spiffy new PCI-E32 card.


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VanBuren

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2004, 01:24:09 PM »

Quote from: luwigie

I don't doubt that PCI-E is better than AGP from a raw bandwidth stand point. The thing is that most video cards rarely even use up the entire AGP 8x bus. There are other bottle necks in the way.

Agreed, this is just a trick for manufactors like they did with AGP 4x

All ppl that ive seen comparing FPS with 4x AGP and 8x AGP tells the same, its an increase around 5%.........

The bottlenecks is like you said luwigie in other stuff then port bandwidth.

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2004, 02:52:21 PM »

I think once the benefits of PCI-E really start showing there is no way that people can ignore it. It may just be another piece of technology that really doesn't take off and ends up disappearing...

People are weird creatures, most PC's still have floppies in them. The majority of PC's still have PS/2 ports.

The game industry really drives the advances we see in video cards. Until we see games that AGP is unable to support, AGP will still be around. Very Happy


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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2004, 01:04:46 PM »

But for agp to become extinct we need a huge development to remove a bunch of bottlenecks in the motherboard itself.. AGP will live on.. PCI-E is just a way for manufactures to get people to pay more money that in the future, 3 to 5 years, you will need to have to play the newest games on the highest settings... I think that the first true PCI-E card is the 6600 from Nvidia.. It will not be released on AGP.. I dont know what ATI's line is currently doing..


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OrGaN_ShIfTeR

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2004, 07:40:48 PM »

Quote from: luwigie

It just doen't make sense to use PCI-E (not hot-swappable) over USB2 (hot-swappable). I can see possibly some new specs coming out with more bandwidth now that they can use it (thanks to PCI-E).

If I misunderstood what you said about PCI-E replacing all of those things, please ignore me as usual.

The last page of the article that starts off with "The Future of Connectivity" states that this new technology is "Hot-Swappable".

Quote from: Swimmer

PCI-E is just a way for manufactures to get people to pay more money that in the future, 3 to 5 years, you will need to have to play the newest games on the highest settings...

On the last page under "Conclusions", it states that it will be cheaper to implement PCI Express onto MB's than standard PCI & AGP slots.

I, personally, believe that AGP 8x and the other interfaces mentioned in the article will live a short life.


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Swimmer

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2004, 08:08:48 PM »

Quote

Just as we have seen little real world improvement transitioning from AGP 4X to AGP 8X, the extra bandwidth offered by PCI Express x16 is likely not required initially nor for some time as clearly, the AGP bus is not the limiting factor on current generation video cards. Other architectural changes like improved latency may help somewhat but users should not be surprised to see little difference between AGP and PCI Express cards initially.

Is it nessary? nope.. nor is a 10000rpm Raptor drive.... it is just cool to say that you have one.... I do know that Dell has begun to put it in its high end systems... However, the mid end system has AGP-Pro.. One of my dorm buddies just bought an evga.com 6800 GT based on AGP... It is just cool as hell..

Quote

PCI Express will also face the same reduction in complexity through its transition from a parallel to a serial based architecture. The design goals of PCI Express included a lower implementation cost as well, higher bandwidth per pin as well as scalable performance. The engineers behind PCI Express did not want to be caught in the same situation as with the current PCI bus; it was a robust architecture evidenced by over a decade of use and continued use for at least a couple more years but speeding up the PCI Bus is not really a feasible long term solution.

If we look at SATA and ATA i would say that less than 15% of current manufactured computer have sata. I know that SATA will eventually dominate the market. However, with the computer boom that was in the late 90s and early 00s all of those are AGP equiped and it would be a major mistake for the card manufactures because that would require everyone to upgrade just to use SATA and PCI-E...

So in the end PCI-E is going to be a good thing.. it is just going to need some time to get into the mainstream... I still know people who are running 900MHz athlons with pc133 ram... It is just nuts... I dont see them dropping 1200 for a system bases on a platform that has PCI-E... It might become afordable when the new Nvidia board with PCI-E comes out...

If AGP was going to have a short life then it wouldnt make sense for Nvidia or ATI to put all the money into developing it into 2 different platforms.. they must think that there is some value in developing for both.. However, I will admit that Nvidia is trying to make the mainstream PCI-E.. the 6600 is going to push the manufactures to go with the PCI-E as their graphics bus...


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OrGaN_ShIfTeR

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2004, 05:47:42 PM »

Very interesting article on PCI Express & AGP.

Check it out here: Recent Article


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OrGaN_ShIfTeR

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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2004, 11:40:36 AM »

Once again, another interesting PCI Express article.

Here is the link: PCI Express 2.0 to double bandwidth


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AGP 8x vs PCI Express

« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2004, 11:43:17 AM »

They say it will be PCIE, because of the supreme bandwidth , but i dont trust iot. ill stick with AGP till im proven terribly wrong, If thats been mentioned.. oh well its 1 pm , i jst woke up .. lol


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